AI, Math Anxiety & Personalized Learning: How Vimi Is Changing the Way Kids Learn Math with Liora Schocken

Why do so many kids grow up believing they’re “just bad at math”?

In this fascinating episode of Mom’s Brain Is a Coffee Stain, Kayla sits down with Liora Schocken, creator of Vimi, an AI-powered adaptive math tutor designed to help kids learn in a way that actually works for their brains.

Together, they dive into the growing problem of math anxiety, post-pandemic learning gaps, ADHD and learning differences, school absenteeism, and the pressure families feel when kids struggle academically.

Liora explains how Vimi goes beyond simply giving easier or harder math problems. Instead, the platform adapts to how a child learns—whether they need visual guidance, step-by-step support, confidence-building, or a completely different approach altogether.

This conversation is especially powerful for parents who have ever sat at the kitchen table feeling helpless while trying to help their child with homework.

In This Episode We Discuss:

• Why math confidence and self-esteem are deeply connected
• How the pandemic created lasting math learning gaps
• The rise in student absenteeism and learning struggles
• Why traditional classrooms often fail kids who learn differently
• The connection between ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, and math struggles
• How AI can personalize learning for each student
• Why short, consistent learning sessions work better than cramming
• The emotional toll math struggles can have on both kids and parents
• Why tutoring sessions sometimes increase frustration instead of confidence
• How Vimi acts as a “study buddy” instead of just giving answers

A Powerful Reminder:

✨ Struggling with math does not mean your child isn’t smart
✨ Kids don’t all learn the same way—and they shouldn’t be expected to
✨ Confidence grows when kids experience small, consistent wins

Key Takeaway:

The problem isn’t always that a child is “bad at math.”
Sometimes the problem is simply that they were taught in a way their brain doesn’t connect with.

And when learning adapts to the child instead of forcing the child to adapt to the system… everything changes.

Guest Information

Liora Schocken
Creator of Vimi

🌐 Website:
https://heyvimi.com

Show Information

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Transcript

0:10

Welcome to Mom's Brain is a Coffee Stain, the only podcast clinically proven to raise your blood pressure and your dopamine. I'm Kayla, Millennial Mom, and current chaos coordinator of two spoiled giants who think budget is a TikTok sound. Today we're talking with Leora Schocken. Shocken, excuse me, creator of Vimi, an interactive math app. She's out here saving all of us parents with struggling teens and kids who need all that math help. Well, let's dive on in, guys. Thank you for joining the show today, Liora. And I am so excited for us to talk about your app. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Uh yeah, uh, it's been exciting joining uh VMY over the past uh couple of months. Yeah. Um what inspired the creation of this AI-powered math tutor and like the problems you were trying to solve around it. So Rui Bick and Nier Ares, who are veteran founders, um they have like successfully um disrupted mobility with MoveIt, which is probably the largest, the most successful mobility app in the world, like globally has like a billion users, uh, over a billion users. Yes. Uh so they were trying to find another problem to solve uh and tackle, and uh and harnessing tech to really um to and find uh another system that that needs disruption. And education is probably one of the old, like the most, I don't know, uh oldest systems or the most uh uh heavy systems that has not been disrupted. Like the model that we all know of a classroom has been around for for quite a long time. Uh and that's that's where they went and built this uh this app. Uh Vimi trying to help uh bring personalized and uh adaptive learning to everyone and not as a matter of uh uh uh not as a matter of whether you can afford it or not, I guess. Right. And speaking of adaptive learning, uh when adaptive learning to a child instead of the child adapting to the system, what does that actually look like when using the app? Okay, so that's a really that's a really important question. The using the app, um, using Vime um is all about uh the student essentially getting a learning experience that is suited for them, their own local curriculum within the US, um or uh and but still understanding where that specific student um is relative to the curriculum and adapting to their way of learning. So over the past few months uh or practically a year since we uh started the beta and two months since we since we official or a month since we officially launched, um we've learned that there are types of students and types of ways to learn. Um some people some students would uh much will learn better if they uh if they get, you know, uh uh sort of an authoritative figure or a guide taking them through the material and uh this is the topic that we're going through, and here's the problem, and let's solve through together, and now we've learned that, and let's go over continue and build it on, and some, you know, explanations and some and that's one type of a student, and that's great, and we can run with that, and that's beautiful. But then you'll have a different type of student altogether who is coming and they have a problem they want to solve. They they have a problem that they're they're dealing with, and they're they they want to to to kind of say, This is where I'm at, now let's let's go through here. And just understanding that these are two completely different types of students is something that is really impactful on the way that this student will be successful now, because like trying to get them to learn in a specific way that is already like you is structured and well made, like that won't work necessarily. Um so that's one area. And another is sort of understanding, like, okay, this is a problem in, I don't know, in fractions, and that's great, and it's about fractions, but the ability for uh the Vimi can actually understand, oh, this is there are probably maybe four different types of reasons why someone would be struggling in a fractions type of a problem. Let's let's break it down, let's see if we're focused more on, oh, like basic division is something that they, I don't know, they skipped because there was pandemic when when they were supposed to really learn the material, and you know, that kind of went out the window. And or it's something else. And then it sort of dissects that. So that is true, personalized and adaptive learning, and it's a whole new way of thinking and solving the problem, I hope. That's amazing. And you kind of brought up the pandemic, so I love that. Because why do you think math recovery has continued to lag behind in so many kids since we've had the pandemic? Right. I mean, it's uh it's actually that probably nearly half uh on average, kids are now nearly half a grade level behind where they're supposed to be in math or where they were pre-pandemic. And that's crazy. And there are a lot, there's a m there's a lot of research uh around that. And well, first, uh we you just recently touched it upon it. I mean, math is cumulative, right? You you can do calculus if you don't have a steady foundation in algebra. You can't do algebra if you don't have a solid foundation in basic arithmetic. It just it doesn't work. So the gap accumulates. And you're trying to catch up to something that you need the you need first to build up the foundation, that's one. And another phenomena that I'm not sure is all that uh like well spoken of uh or well known is kids post-pandemic are still missing much more class. It's like the absenteeism, or people are just not like kids are missing class way more than they did pre-pan as opposed to pre-pandemic. And again, that's a like that's on us, on society, to try to figure out how to get them back engaged uh in you know real human interactions and real class scenarios and just being able to apply themselves to to to what they're what they're trying to get to. Um, but the pandemic kind of threw a lot of it. I and and we're still recovering from that. Yeah. I think that's so interesting too, especially when we talk about student absenteeism, because I know like in my son's county, they they're doing a drive to like really promote being at school and everything like that. But it's so funny because you get these notices like at the beginning of the year and then like right before Christmas break and spring break. If your child has a fever, if your child has a cold, if your child has this, do not send them to school. But you're pushing, you're pushing them to be at school, you know. So before the pandemic, you know, a mom might be like, here, take some ibuprofen, go to school, you'll be fine. Or here's a day quill, you know. Now with the pandemic, if they sniffle, the teacher's sending them to the nurse's office and you've got to go and pick them up. So it's it's one of those things where I'm like, did he throw up? Why are you calling me? If he did not vomit, he is fine, you know. He has allergies. He literally takes allergy medications, you know. But it's one of those things where it's it's so important for them to be there. Um, my son, he has an IEP uh and he struggles with reading because he's dyslexic. He also has dysgraphia. Um, he's very math is his strong student. So he loves math and like biology and sciences. Um, but it's very hard to help him with his math if he does need help because of his dysgraphia. He does not write things in a linear way, and his brain does not work in a linear path. So I have no clue. I'm like, I don't know how to help you. Um, and when he misses a day of school because of the sniffles, and then he has makeup work to do, it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, we're gonna have to YouTube this. Right. Because I don't know. You know, he's an algebra two trick. And I'm like, I don't remember that. Yeah, I know you you're it's a great point that you're raising because it's not just I mean, it you sound like uh you're very comfortable with, you know, this is not something that I can help you with, but we are going to figure out a way to get you through it. And that's an amazing position to be in. For many, many parents, they are not there, right? It's it's not just that their child or their young young person has this um challenge with math. It's that they themselves might suddenly feel, oh, like this is this this becomes a parenting identity issue, right? I I'm I'm I'm I can't help my my child in the way that that I I want to, right? So all of a sudden we're talking about not just a math problem, but a family dynamic problem, uh, an identity problem, and and to be able to have a tool within the dynamic with the within the family dynamic that actually like you know you're providing a good way for your for your for your child to uh figure out on their own with whatever adapt to you know the the right adaption of the material to how they learn or how they are, how their brain works, right? And also you get a sense of, okay, like I it's not on me to actually get the job done, but to facilitate the job being done as a parent. I think that that's huge and it's really important. Um, and we're very, very happy to to kind of be able to work within a family to connect both the parent and the child to the same language and the same, you know, improvement graph and learning graph. It's like, okay, like we have this. Yeah. And I think it is so important because, you know, our kids, they'll look at things and they'll feel helpless when they can't do it. Um, and then I know as a mother, I have looked at things and I'm like, oh no, baby, you know, like I should know that, yes, but I don't remember it. And and my husband, he he's an accountant. So he uh he's good with math, you know. But if he's not home and he won't be home until late, it it falls on me. And I have to, it's like you said, it's kind of like a strike to my confidence to be like, okay, well, we're gonna have to pull up YouTube or Khan Academy or something to figure this out because I just don't know how to help you. Um, but at the same time, I look at it like, well, it doesn't really matter if it hurts my confidence as long as it builds their confidence and they're able to do the work. So, and you you're right, you feel good about being able to say, here's a tool, here's a resource, you know, we can get you to where you need to be. And you have the control, it's gonna help you learn where you're at. And I think that is so important because kids do, they learn differently, you know, and math is one of those things that really does impact children's self-esteem, you know. Absolutely, absolutely. Math somewhere in like middle school, there's a moment uh where I where the math struggle stops being oh this one I couldn't get, like I didn't solve I couldn't solve that one, into I'm not good at math. And and that that becomes self-esteem issue, as you said. It becomes it becomes a barrier to a lot of potential, right? Like I this this kid who I don't know is struggling right now with a specific topic could have gone, you know, do a bunch of um amazing things and have these amazing options available to them, but all of a sudden starts to internalize the I'm just not a math person. Like I I can't, like numbers, those they they scare me. And I'm just not and if you were trying, like if you catch it before, or even we're trying to kind of undo it, like you're you're you're backtracking out of it as quickly as possible, um, to build that confidence and to to understand that yes, just because you know, you were on a path and some struggles led you to not being able to solve this problem the way you were taught with the tools that you had, does not by any by any way mean that you're gonna not be able to solve other problems or that same problem once you understand or find a different way of learning. 100%. And it's like there's always things that people don't realize that you can be, you can struggle with a subsection, but that doesn't make you bad at the whole subject. Like I always tell my son, because he hates geography, not geography, um, geometry, but he loves trig. And I'm like, Yeah, that's totally fine. Like you can not like geometry and you can need a little, you can actually need to study for geometry tests, and trig you don't. You just get it. That's fine. That doesn't make you bad at geometry. Like you just for some reason you don't like it, it doesn't click with you, and that's okay. Same thing when I'm I love English, but I hate reading old English. You know, yeah, it's just one of those things. We all have our own little the our brains work differently. And it's so important, it's like you said, to catch it before it hits the I'm just bad at math. And you know, even if you're starting to notice that, to find a re find a resource like Vimi that can give that confidence back, like, oh no, I got this, I can view this. Absolutely. And parents that's a huge, that's a huge, huge, huge um moment that, oh, I actually can do this. Exactly. And parents right now, they're overwhelmed with educational apps and tools right now, and everybody's school pushes different ones and all that. What separates true personalized learning from programs that simply give harder or easier questions? I I think you answered your own. I think you you you you hit the nail right on the head. Um, the point isn't to only only um uh you know set the pace as a personalized um element in the study, right? It's the pace is very, very, it's it's one dimension. It's a very simple dimension. Are you do you need a uh an easier problem taking it slower, or do you need a more challenging problem because you're already that's I mean, that's already assuming a lot of assumptions on the the learner and where they're at, what does easy and hard mean, right? But true uh personalized adaptive learning um will take into account again how the how the child how the how the child likes to learn, how the child thrives in learning. Uh is it a visual type of thing? Is it is it text-based? I don't know. It's two completely different things. Uh right, your son will probably not really go with the text-based, right? And something else will be will really click and resonate with him. That's great. So it's not like I'm gonna give you one, you know, sheet to work at that is, you know, is this set of problems, and I'm gonna give you a sheet that is that set of problems. So that's one thing. The other is the these micro skills and building your own personal knowledge graph in a way that you are always you're always getting these small victories that you can achieve you can celebrate and that you can build your confidence upon. It's the pace is is a very small fraction or subset of what it truly means to be uh completely uh adaptive in the way that that the technology works. Yeah, and part of the technology is it looks at the hesitation, the engagement, and how the child learns, not just whether they're answering right or wrong or how fast they're doing it. And I think that's so important. Are they asking for help or not? Do they, when you're asking them, do they want to work it on their own, or do they want you to take them through a few extra, you know, a sub, like a sub-question and another one and another one? It it's a very different experience and it should be a different experience. Absolutely, because like we all learn differently. And, you know, as a mom, I tutor my son when he needs help. But especially, like I said, he struggles with English. Well, that's something that I help him with a lot. Um and what are some common mistakes parents and unintentionally make when trying to help with math homework or tutoring at home? I tend to find that it's easiest for my son to teach me because I don't know. So if he doesn't know, I encourage him to look up things and find the yeah, like find a lesson so he can teach me. But I know that that's not often the case, and that's just something I've found that works for my son. Right. That's that's really cool that again that you have the you know, even the creativity, right? To try and find the different solutions that work within your own uh family and the way that you guys communicate. But um I'll take you back a little bit because some of the times parents just even like taking the decision to tutor their own kids is is is Is a is is uh it's not necessarily the right course of action within the context of the family. I mean things can get heated very quickly. Emotions run high when when the when the kid is struggling with something, when they're when they need help, they're already in in uh in a state of some frustration, right? Yes, and stress. And like if they're older, it might also like start connecting to stress of oh my god, this is college, applications, and like there's there's stress compounded by other types of stress. And and and sometimes as a parent, we try to we try to provide all the help that that we can and all the support. So one mistake which I have, I I really actually I don't have an answer as to what how to how to avoid it, but when we also come into the situation with heightened stress because oh my god, it's college application time, or or oh no, if they're frustrated with math, then we're gonna have a big problem. If we come into the situation stressed and anxious, this my sense is that it's probably not going to be the best tutoring session that that you can get to. Trying to harness resources from, you know, from from the internet, from advising with the with the c with the child uh teachers, sometimes just encouraging them to ask for the help when they need it. Um even if you're not the person who's doing the helping is is the right way to support them, as opposed to getting your own stress and um, you know, if you're really you know comfortable with English and helping, and if you're and if you're calm enough and certain enough that your help will be well received and and we can you can get somewhere, then I believe you will be you'll do a uh a wonderful job with technically helping, not just supporting the the child and and their um and their need to be reassured. Um but if not, I would suggest finding whatever type of resource that would work. And that's so perfect. And it's like you said, like heightened emotions, because I will tell you before I tried the okay, this is let me show you how to do it. And because he doesn't think like I think, we would be like, I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, what are you doing? Like, and so it we would end up like in an argument for no reason. And it's now I'll be like, with him showing me how to do it, he might be like, Mom, what are you doing? And I'll be like, I really don't know because I don't understand. I was just trying to follow along. But we had to switch it up because we were arguing over doing homework. And I'm like, this is this is not how I want our day to end, is arguing over a math problem. Or like that's gonna flee my mind in five seconds because I'm too old to remember this. But sounds like you're uh doing adaptive learning in real life, right? Yeah, I'm trying. But you know, we do make those mistakes and we have to adjust. And something like Vimi is really easy to give that resource to your child, whether you their stress or not stress. It just takes the pressure off altogether because it's empowering the child. And I think that's so important. And you you emphasize the short daily learning sessions instead of long study marathons. Absolutely. Why does the consistency often work better than the intensity? Well, that's a great question. So a a lot of research has shown that um, like if you're trying to let's let's let's equate it to the other alternative, which is often utilized, which is private tutoring, which is a topic of its own, right? Um and pri what you would then probably get is this long session on a Tuesday and on a Thursday. I don't know if you're lucky enough to get two two uh private lessons of the week. Um and you'll work through problems in one long session, so there's concentration issues, right? And just sitting down for a long period of time can be overwhelming. And like what happens on Sunday? Like Thursday was a long time ago. I'm not doing anything related to math on Sunday. So Monday would I even like my retrieval of the thing that I've learned is is not as great. But if you go through short sessions that are built to accommodate, like not a crazily intense session that now you're gonna have to sit through, um, but you do it daily. Things, you know, build one upon uh build upon each other, and it's like you're you're always coming back to the same thing that you uh already overcame. You you start there, you see that you're doing it again, you got it, you can move on. And it's all simple and small and consistent. You're gonna get to very quickly, you're gonna find that you don't need as much time, um, and you're gonna get to the same level. In fact, we had this was a like a moment for us, we had um a child telling us, uh like writing us in one of the reviews that they were they had to stay away from school for a long period of time. Uh like they had a medical procedure done, and um, and there there was a lot of material covered, and they were really anxious about like catching up. And they didn't spend and they literally like the child expressed how how fast and how uh with not many sessions, but with like they they used they used Vimi pretty consistently over a course of a couple weeks and how fast they caught up, which is remarkable. Um absolutely, you know, that is that's amazing because it's like you said, it's cumulative, like you build on to it. And so it with that thought process, I love how you said, you know, you go on Thursday. Well, you're not doing math Saturday and Sunday, so by Monday, you've you're not it's not even in there anymore. It's like okay, let me try to retrieve this, and you're getting fragments, right? And doing those short sessions kind of eliminates it fragmenting, you know, it just keeps building it. And that's so wonderful because like I I know that it is so hard. Math is one of those topics that is is very difficult for some people. I am one of those people. Like I almost threw my computer out of a window during high school because I could not get, could not get trigonometry. Like, computer almost went out the window. It was the last credit I needed, and I was like, I'm I'm done. Like crying. I had to go for a jog because I was crying. Um but it it it and it's that hard for some people. And my brain, I just I learn very differently. And we didn't have apps and things like that when I was a kid that could help you. We didn't really even have a YouTube you could turn to to get right. So it was you had to go to the school or your parents had to hire you a private tutor. And my parents, God love them, they tried the private tutor out. Right. It did absolutely nothing because you know, because if I if I went to tutoring on Monday and the test was on Friday, I did not know what I was doing Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and I'm now testing on Friday. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we built on to that. I didn't learn that. I was focusing on what I did on Monday. But I even noticed with my my son, we tried private tutoring for reading, you know, and he would go, and we found that an hour and a half once a week, that was just too much. You get out of school, you're sitting there for an hour and a half. Right, absolutely. He's ADHD, he was like, No, I can't. And he just he really wasn't absorbing any of it. So it was better for us to read to him 20 minutes at night. Slowly, see. And then again, like you you built it into your own life without even I I mean, it's it's like private tutoring, it's a scheduling problem. Yes, it's available, even if it's available to you from an you know, from a financial standpoint, which is not everybody can say that. Right. I mean, so even if it's available to you for financially, it's it's going to be available to you at this day at this time. But then you have like what if I ha like what if I don't understand something on you know, Sunday evening when I'm well then like I have I have math tomorrow. I need what I like but the private tutor is not sitting next to me right now. Vime is. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. And you know, we talk a lot on the show about screen time and parents using that balance, like a healthy balance of using technology while still embracing tools that can genuinely help kids learn. For example, I I cheat when I bake and I use like Surrey or Google Earth or something, not Google Earth, but the Alexa thing, to tell me, you know, oh hey, I need to add these two fractions. And then I caught my son the one day being like, he was being lazy and he was like, hey, what's this? And this, and I was like, oh no, no, no. No, sir, right, you can do that math. He was like, Yeah, I just I just wanted a quick answer. And I'm like, but we don't, you don't do that. Like, I'm doing it when I'm cooking, you're doing this, this is homework. This is different. Right, right. You know, so we talk about that because it it's important, like these AI tools are wonderful, you know, and having something you can ask a question to is amazing. Having a screen with you, it keeps you connected. But you do need to have the balance to say, hey, this is not a time to use that. You this is you need to do this on your own. And with Vimi, it's like you just said, you can actually use it as a study buddy. Absolutely, absolutely. And Vimi, um right from the start, uh, they've been and we've been super mindful that we are there to help with math. We're n you if you want to like if you want to talk to us about something else, you know, we're not your chat GPT where you can consult with us about your life experience, and that's not what we're doing here. Like we're very conscious about we want to focus on the math. And like you can even stress test the uh the app. Um, I just give me the answer, won't work. Let's walk through it. You're gonna Vimi under we understand, we get it. We don't the the point isn't to be able to run through my homework really quickly. Right. You have other you if you want that, it don't use Vimi. I mean, come on. Um Yeah. That's not the point. We're we're here to help you really build your confidence in math, actually learn math, and actually, you know, improve and achieve whatever it is that your your your your goal is. And so even when you try, you're gonna get, let's try to work on it together. Um, and maybe we'll take you more through more, you know, more explanations, we'll we'll we'll help you along further. Because you just you essentially just told us, I don't know how to do this. But but there's a big difference between that and I okay, just just I I just need a quick answer. Yeah, absolutely. And have you seen any surprising like breakthroughs or success stories from kids who are using Vimi that really stuck with you? Abs I mean, we've we've been really fortunate. Um, and we've had some great, some great users and some great stories. I shared one of them. We had another um actually telling us that uh a student told us that she got from an F to a B with our help. And that's amazing. We had parents telling us um that their child um started loving their math sess sessions as a result of using Vime. I think Vimi really tries to balance, you know, the need, like the the basic motivation of math. And you gotta, I mean, at the end of the day, math is a is an important tool. It's it it in some cases it is a barrier to success in other in other uh areas, right? Um between that and the child's motivation to learn, right? If you're not if you're not really listening to the the the child or the young person, the the teen, if you're not listening to how they want to learn and what and what's what's fun for them, by the way, just you know, good old fun, you're not you're not really going to help them. And and Vimi also has like a pretty I don't know, the team has a pretty substantial leg in uh gaming, not as the you know, in in the good in the good sense of gaming, like g with gamification, you can really help the child enjoy themselves while while do while doing math. And and it is important. You don't there there's a fine line obviously, and you don't want to cross it, but it's important to have fun. It's it's a good way to do it. You don't want it to feel like a punishment because then they don't want it to do it. You don't want to feel like a punishment. You don't want them to feel like, okay, so I'm again in the in a classroom sort of setting where somebody is talking at me and telling me, like, you know, reciting some material for me that that that I'm not gonna come back to this. I'm not gonna do the session tomorrow. It's not gonna help me advance. I'm not gonna be able to solve that, you know, get through that skill that um I, you know, I missed at class, I was it it it it didn't click for me, whatever the reason. I'm gonna just I'm just not gonna go back to it. So there's no way I'm gonna learn the next skill, which will, you know, build so so fun is an important element in learning. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it it's so much easier to do things when you're having a little bit of fun doing it, you know. And it's like you said, there is that balance because it it's still about learning math. But you know, yeah, we're not we're we haven't yet, and we're not expecting to get somebody telling us, oh, this is way better than Minecraft, right? Like that's gonna Yeah. And what gives you some hope about the future of AI in education, especially for kids who may struggle in the traditional learning environment? Well, you know, a year ago you and I could not have had the discussion we're having now. Two years ago for sure. I mean, it is essentially a way like technology has moved so has advanced so much that we are talking about a very near future where children and teens can actually get personalized uh academic or education and academic journey. And that in itself is is a pretty bright future as far as I'm concerned. Um and we know of a lot of initiatives to, you know, dramatically change the way classrooms are run, and it's not just in the privacy of my own phone, right? It's it is something that policymakers and and educators are really trying to learn how to bring it into the system in large. And again, we talked about it right in the beginning, right? It was the the modern school system was designed around the average student, it was not designed to accommodate each and every person's unique way of learning. And now uh we we actually can have this conversation. So hopefully within the near future, this conversation will be in a much larger scale. And that's interesting. It'll be interesting because I think the the use of AI is gonna really rework the traditional sense of schooling. Um because I think there is an ability to, like you said, personalize it for each student. I mean, every kid nowadays has like a Chromebook, an iPad that the school issues them ever since COVID. Absolutely. So, you know, we're seeing like they don't carry the thing. The infrastructure is there. Right. Yeah, they don't carry the textbooks anymore. You've already got given them the technology. So now it's like we need to figure out how to use the AI appropriately in the school. And I think it'll be interesting to see, but I feel like in definitely in the next five to ten years, we're gonna see a big change in the traditional school system, which is great because I know there's a lot of times that there's certain career paths that just get completely blocked off if you're bad at math. You're like, oh, I can never be a doctor, oh, I can never be an accountant, oh, I can never work in the sciences, you know, like just because you're you're bad at math. And the reality of it is, is you're probably not bad at math. You're just not the average person at math. And Vivi addresses that. And I think that that's so wonderful because I know for a fact I was one of those kids where I'm like, well, college applications are gonna be easy. Yeah. If there's one message that you could give exhausted parents who are worried their child is maybe falling behind in math, what would you want them to hear? I would want them to first like I would want to acknowledge that they're not alone and it's not it's not on them, right? It's it's math anxiety is real and it's and it's and it's there. And that's what families are dealing with across the US and across the world. And they're now uh with AI and with technology that is actually trying to um get in that specific problem space, um, there are amazing tools that can help you as a family um overcome the challenge, and that you should go to heavmy.com or uh download the app uh and uh test it for yourself. That's perfect. And one more time, what was that website? Heyvimi.com. Perfect. And we're gonna go ahead and link that in the show notes for everybody. Oh, perfect. Thank you so much for joining us today. Really excited to be here. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Well, that's it for today, you beautiful caffeinated disasters. If any of this resonated with you, hit that follow button. And if you would, please leave us a review. It really helps other tired moms and dads find the show. And if you want to become a supporter of the show, or just keep us caffeinated so we can keep bringing the chaos every Tuesday, head over to our Buzzprout page at mom's brain is a coffee stain.buzzprout.com. Even a couple bucks means the world and helps us keep the coffee and the show flowing. Now you can become a subscriber of the show and get access to new episodes two days early. And don't forget to check us out on social media. You can find us everywhere at mom's brain is a coffee stain. Feel free to slide into our DMs or email us your best no guilt hacks, cringiest mom moments, and episode requests at mom's brain is a coffee stain at outlook.com. Head on over to Lenora and her team's work at heavimi.com, check it out, see if you and your family might be able to utilize it. And don't forget to check out the app as well. We'll go ahead and put the link to that webpage in the show notes. Well, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go edge my front yard. Love y'all. Mean it. Go sip one for us, and we'll see you next Tuesday.